Curse

Caelus The Fallen · Aug 06, 2008, 01:44 PM // 13:44

It's like Duncan the Black: hard? yes, challenging? nope.
Set up gimmicky Swap x/A, lock specially build SV Necro, keep PS up and stay out of range... and you're done!
The current hard mode does the exact opposite of what it should: rather than discouraging gimmicks and encouraging skill, it throws skill out of the window (no amount of personal skill is going to save you from a boss who can 1 hit KO any party member for example) and rinstead it mandates gimmickry.
The challenge stops being about the playing, and more about exploiting the AI and mechanics in the same predictable ways.

What Now · Aug 06, 2008, 05:23 PM // 17:23

I was messing around with Ctrl+Alt+H then it came to me, what if in Hard Mode or some new challenge you couldn't see your skills or the health of anyone that you're not targeting via click. Makes monks need to be watch the field and everyone else when their nukes are charged or when their close to pulling aggro. But it would be a bit extreme I'm sure.

Dr Strangelove · Aug 06, 2008, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

If you choose to go with a selective balance though - then I don't have a problem with selecting the balance which causes for the player to ALWAYS come on top. The monsters won't complain.

Why would you play a game that you always win?

Hyper Cutter · Aug 06, 2008, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Humans are capable of being very powerful with normal skills, monsters are not.

I take it you've never dealt with the Jade Brotherhood...

X Joey X · Aug 06, 2008, 09:27 PM // 21:27

HM needs to be a lot harder, as has been said many times in this thread the best way to do this would be to improve monster AI and skill bars. I got bored of vanquishing after Tyria and I had to revise for exams so for most of Elona and Cantha I loaded up Sabway, ran into a mob, used a couple of PvE skills then went away to read a page or two in my revision guide. When I came back the mob was dead so I moved on. Now that wasn't really a challenge.

Scythe O F Glory · Aug 07, 2008, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Well you gotta make the enemy AI a lot better, i think thats pretty aparent. I think a good idea would be to give mobs tema builds that are currently used in HA or GVG, or even new made up ones. Instead of picking a couple random professions and giving them random skills that dont balance well with the team, have the whole enemy team work together so that you cant just pick any target, kill it, and move on. Have shutdown enemies stay on the monks, use anti melee skills on someone whos actually melee, and have more enemy shouts and enchantments that afect the whole mob.

Laylat · Aug 07, 2008, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Haven't read all the posts, so I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned.
- Have PvE mobs bring a good, well balanced skill bar that they can use efficiently.
- Each mob's skill bar is choosen at random from a pool of balanced bars that works well with the group they will be in. For example: a necro bringing barbs when there are no physical damage dealers around is pointless. But the same necro in the group will have barbs if there is a minion master around. Simple example, but hoefully, you see how that works.
- Good combination of snares and interupts.
- Mobs will analyse skills used and act accordingly; ie: snare/kiting away from characters using touch skills, etc...

This is will bring out the element of surprise when playing. This will prevent a "one build beats all" play. Lol, ursan you ask? Challenging (see title of thread) and Ursan don't go in the same sentence.

upier · Aug 07, 2008, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Why would you play a game that you always win?

Because it's fun?
Because the road to the goal is more important then the goal itself?
The fact that I know that it's hard (or next to impossible) to fail just means I can take risks on the road getting there.

If on the other hand the player loses it's counters - then certain things not only work better but they sometimes end up being the only options.
Which can turn the road into a VERY shitty place.

If imbalanced crap is in the game - the players having access to it gives me options.

(Of course I am not saying that counters MUST be in the game. What I am saying is if the game design is so shitty that it actually needs counters - then I'd rather have a variety of them.)

Abedeus · Aug 07, 2008, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Because it's fun?
Because the road to the goal is more important then the goal itself?

Wait, so you enjoy having no challenge? Then I guess you enjoy running against 5-year olds or boxing a large hunk of meat. Because you will win. You can't loose, unless you trip and break your legs on the air or you hit the bone, but then it's called ,,gimping yourself''.

GW right now is a race where professional sprinters are running with 5 year olds. They win in IN YOUR FREAKING FACE LOOSERS way, or they are gimping themselves to make the run enjoyable.

Quote:

I take it you've never dealt with the Jade Brotherhood...

They are strong only because henches are crappy and have crappy bars. Jade's have... mediocre-good bars. And large numbers + a bit higher level.

Although Jades and Wardens are the only challenging enemies in Cantha. Afflicted don't count, they just attack in a huge mob and have perma death nova.

upier · Aug 07, 2008, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Wait, so you enjoy having no challenge? Then I guess you enjoy running against 5-year olds or boxing a large hunk of meat. Because you will win. You can't loose, unless you trip and break your legs on the air or you hit the bone, but then it's called ,,gimping yourself''.

GW right now is a race where professional sprinters are running with 5 year olds. They win in IN YOUR FREAKING FACE LOOSERS way, or they are gimping themselves to make the run enjoyable.

If the point of the jog is the road to the finish - then I don't see what difference it makes if I jog with the best runners in the world or 5 year olds.
I'll be enjoying the run either way.

I play GW because I like the classes and the skills.
I play GW PVE because I LOVE the environment.
IF I wanted to be challenged then I wouldn't play against the AI. I'd PvP.

The biggest problem is that PvE players somehow have the impression that finishing first matters in PvE. 5 year old finish the same jog as you do. And winning on a track that 5 year old can run makes you good how ...?

Avarre · Aug 07, 2008, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The biggest problem is that PvE players somehow have the impression that finishing first matters in PvE. 5 year old finish the same jog as you do. And winning on a track that 5 year old can run makes you good how ...?

If players wanted happy easy free PvE they should play Runescape instead. There was never a point of not keeping all aspects of the game competitive to a degree.

cellardweller · Aug 07, 2008, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The biggest problem is that PvE players somehow have the impression that finishing first matters in PvE. 5 year old finish the same jog as you do. And winning on a track that 5 year old can run makes you good how ...?

When overcoming challenges that are designed for your average Joe Schmoe to easily complete, comparing your performance to others is the only meaningful measure of success. Without comparing speeds, PvE is the equivalent of playing golf and declaring yourself a winner because you managed to eventually get the ball in the hole.

Arkantos · Aug 07, 2008, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

I take it you've never dealt with the Jade Brotherhood...

Jade brotherhood in HM? Yes, I have. They are hard, yes. They are not crazy strong, and they are not that challenging to kill. If you're playing with capable humans, you shouldn't have too many problems.

I'll never understand people who find games without a challenge fun. Go play hello kitty island adventure or something if you're into no-challenge games.

around · Aug 07, 2008, 12:35 PM // 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Jade brotherhood in HM? Yes, I have. If you're playing with capable humans, they are not that hard.

I'll never understand people who find games without a challenge fun. Go play hello kitty island adventure or something if you're into no-challenge games.

I'm so bad I need a guru for that game as well.

HINT HINT

Bulletdodger · Aug 07, 2008, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

I play GW because I like the classes and the skills.
I play GW PVE because I LOVE the environment.
IF I wanted to be challenged then I wouldn't play against the AI. I'd PvP.

QFT

@ Thread : The best way to save PvE is to add new content and do the needed balancing.

gremlin · Aug 07, 2008, 01:10 PM // 13:10

One thing should be done "well in my opinion lol"

Encourage team play whether that's a team of players or player hero I don't care.

If there are to be secondary classes in gw2 make sure the secondary class can never repeat never match the primary in power.
There should be skills available as a primary that you can never have as a secondary.

Inbuilt weaknesses make the classes work a little like the Rock Paper Scissors game.
So that when you play there is a very definite need to have certain classes in certain areas, and while you can get by with that class as a secondary its a darn sight easier with a primary.

Hopefully it would encourage team play and players would learn the value of all the classes.
If I thought it could be done I would say do this for gw1 but its far too late

TinyTheEle · Aug 07, 2008, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Take out any remove hex skills.

illidan009 · Aug 07, 2008, 06:39 PM // 18:39

As much as I like the idea of making balanced mobs actually have a decnet shutdown or monk, that would screw everyone else over since it would now be much harder to kill the mobs...easiest way is still to just nerf Ursan. Although this balanced group plan could still be implemented...in high lvl ares like DoA or soemthing so ppl don't die 50 times in Istan

Bulletdodger · Aug 07, 2008, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by illidan009

As much as I like the idea of making balanced mobs actually have a decnet shutdown or monk, that would screw everyone else over since it would now be much harder to kill the mobs

I would love to see that , that way the common pug will require to use a shutdown character in the group , which will end ( or at least reduce ) the class discrimination .

Anduin · Aug 07, 2008, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

It's because people expect to do everything in a game because they paid for it. They think casual players deserve steamrolling through end-game content. Since the majority of GW players are bad and can't complete the content, they bitch and moan about it being too hard. ANet is a business, they're after the money. They go with the majority, and don't care where they're taking the game. They're making money, that's good enough for them.

If the majority were for challenging content and against ursan, I'm sure ANet would make more challenging content and nerf ursan. Sadly, the people who want the game easier because they're bad are ignorant and selfish fools. They want the titles, elite armor and rare items for themselves, but because they can't actually earn them, they rely on overpowered skills.

Guild Wars was once challenging (remember thunderhead keep during prophecies only?). Because of the majority, the difficulty of Guild Wars is similar to the difficulty in this game:

And the people who want it changed to suit them (aka, you and your little buddies here) aren't selfish how?

How is wanting something changed for the minority not selfish?